June 2, 2012 (this day)

Last year at this time I was in the Smoky Mountains, about to have a close encounter with a bear.  This year we’re going to Ocean City in July, and I’m a bit afraid of the heat.  It will be a mostly swimming vacation for me, weather permitting.  Swimming is really the only physical activity I ever do just for the enjoyment of it.  That, and maybe, under certain circumstances, walking.

Today the weather that I love is back, and we’ll be taking the dog to the park before the meeting tonight.  We’re such a busy lot that we’ll be celebrating my anniversary from back on May 1, along with the fourth anniversary of another member from the beginning of May -  a really bright spot in the group.  It was part of the concept when we started the group to celebrate anniversaries of members.  It’s not generally done in this area.  And I love it, except when it’s mine.  I’ll try to be brave.

The other night I went to a meeting and there were only three of us there.  The other women had 23 and 19 years, and I took the opportunity to talk to them about being an “oldtimer.”  It was a really good discussion, and part of me still longs to start and oldtimer meeting.  There is one once a year in this area, but I mean one that meets every frigging week and bellyaches about the challenges and celebrates the joys.

When I asked them what they feel they can’t do or say in a regular meeting that includes and is geared toward newcomers we came up with quite a list.  Oh well, for now I’ll be glad for the shared experience I got the other night, I’ll be glad that I’m not alone in these oldtimer feelings, and mostly be glad for the new people who come and who keep the fellowship alive and well for me as I age.

But Not So With Alcoholics (Step Twelve continued)

But not so with alcoholics.  When A.A. was quite young, a number of eminent psychologists and doctors made an exhaustive study of a good-sized group of so-called problem drinkers.  The doctors weren’t trying to find how different we were from one another; they sought to find whatever personality traits, if any, this group of alcoholics had in common.  They finally came up with a conclusion that shocked the A.A. members of that time.  These distinguished men had the nerve to say that most of the alcoholics under investigation were still childish, emotionally sensitive, and grandiose.

I still resent the male-centeredness of AA and as soon as I feel that resentment, I replace it with gratitude that there’s AA at all, and then I let it go.

I’ve learned to pretty much name and claim every character defect that exists as at least partly belonging to me.  Any amount of time I spend considering any one of them is time will spent.

The focus of my writing and thoughts is how these things related to oldtimers.  I often consider newcomers, usually when I’m at a meeting or when I’m trying to help a newcomer, most especially my person favorite kind of newcomer, the chronic relapser.

I love the language of the 12 and 12 and how it says here that the alcoholics were STILL (were they still drinking?  probably) childish, emotionally sensitive and grandiose.  If they were still drinking, than I take it to mean that children exhibit these character traits, and non-alcoholic children grow out of them, whereas alcoholics-to-be do not.  And I honestly have to say that, among newcomers and constant slippers, I do see those characteristics to one degree or another, but all more so than in people who have been sober for some time.

I went to a family wedding this past weekend, and it would be incredibly easy for me to list all the thousand and one ways in which the active alcoholics in my family (that would be my mother’s entire generation, basically) are childish, emotionally sensitive, and grandiose.  But then again, my decades of AA training make me shrink back from making those judgements just as soon as I’ve made them (in other words, too late!).

Instead, I’m off to my character defects list to make sure these adjectives are included and in that way, consider them in my own life, each in its turn.

 

Wreckage of the Past

From the ancient oldtimer perspective (which is mine), I think some things have got to be let go.

I started thinking about this, thinking that because of my youth, I didn’t have tons of wreckage when I finally got sober, but upon a little more thought I decided I had enough.  Most glaringly, I carried on a relationship with someone who was married while I was drinking, and once sober, I couldn’t make direct amends.  I’ve heard of some ways people make indirect amends, but those didn’t come up in my life at that time.  Now, many years later I truly hope that living well (at least not blatantly doing the wrong thing like that) has been an amend, but the fact remains that I was guilty, I can’t directly apologize, and nothing can change that now.

Unless I purposefully set out to think about it, or unless something jars a memory, I don’t often think of that or other wreckages of my past.  It’s vitally important that I not forget because those are the things that I did while I was drinking, and if I drink again I will do much worse things.  That I believe.  So by letting go I don’t mean forgetting.  I don’t forgive myself and I don’t really punish myself.  I don’t remember often but I don’t forget completely.

I have not personally done an indirect amend, but I’ve heard it gives some people peace.  They make a charitable donation or volunteer time of in some other way try to pay back the harm they caused by doing much more good than harm in a way that’s as related as possible to the harm.  So someone who was rotten to their grandmother and cannot now be nice and helpful to her helps other old ladies in memory of her.

Wreckage of the more recent past is not so dramatic.  For me, I can mostly think of things I would have done differently with my kids, if I had a chance to do it over again, but they are still here and thankfully we’re not done yet.  But with the way my parenting goes, by the time I figure out what to do, we’re on to another phase.  I am really very lucky.

January 5, 2012 (this day)

From this time last year, I have pictures of Carole’s back surgery.  She’s a teacher and has a long break at this time of year.  Perhaps this will be our winter ritual.  Perhaps this is our winter ritual, and I haven’t realized it till now.  Or perhaps I’m being dramatic and silly.

She was checked by the doctor today and graduated to a cane.  We saw her bionic knee on an x-ray.  My daughter has gone back to her home, after a very tense night when she tried to leave and had to turn back due to snow.  It’s snowing where she is now.  It snows there all winter.  I miss her but not really her cats.  Five cats in one house is too many.

My mother is still here helping, thank goodness.  I’ve been working at home since we’ve been back from the doctor, the notary (to get her a temporary disabled parking permit for work), the drugstore (to buy the cane) and Starbucks, because she’s an addict.

Neither of us has been to a meeting since last Saturday but we’re going to try tomorrow to go to one that has no stairs.  Along with the stories from the first edition of the Big Book, we’ve been reading from “Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers.”  Fascinating stuff there – not!  But one thing I love about very long-term sobriety is the ability to internalize and study so much of the program, including the history.  The recovery from the knee will end, and this recovery won’t.  All is well, for today.

December 24, 2011 (this day)

I was looking at the subtitle of my blog, “how to become and oldtimer in AA.”  How?

One way is by treating pain killers with extreme, extreme caution.  They really scare me.  I’m sure that many of the people I know who went out or died because of pain killers, started with actual pain.

Carole is home from the hospital and in a lot of pain.  Our house has a very terrible lay out for anyone with a mobility issue.  The hospital stay was difficult and sometimes scary.  It’s Christmas Eve, so health care services aren’t what they usually would be on a Friday.

But my daughter’s here, helping, and she’ll stay with Carole while I go to a meeting later.  In the hospital, I read several of the stories from the first edition of the Big Book to Carole.  When it’s all over, her new knee should be better than the old one.  It’s not snowing, and my mother is coming to help us tomorrow.  The kids are cooking tomorrow, and there is a pile of presents waiting for tomorrow.

If Our Turn Comes To Speak at a Meeting (Step Twelve continued)

If our turn comes to speak at a meeting, we again try to carry A.A.’s message.  Whether our audience is one or many, it is still Twelfth Step work.

I’ve been trying, in this blog, to explain (to myself) and record some of my difficulties as an oldtimer.  I started it, in a way, because I find so much of the people, meetings, literature, etc, around me to be geared to newcomers.  If they are the most important people in a meeting, I guess I am among the least important.

Poor me!

But to continue my sob story, my problems with being an oldtimer pale in comparison to being an introvert.  This is not a good personality type for success in AA.  But luckily, I got desperate enough before I actually died to talk to the people, use the phone, sponsor people, speak at meetings.  I did what I had to do, though it was often very difficult and it often made me anxious and unhappy.

Having the experience of watching Carole grow up in AA, I know it is a far different experience for an extrovert.

So what follows are true confessions.

I STILL hate to say anything at an AA meeting.  I hate having a room full of people look at me and listen to me.  I have spent years in AA “passing” at my turn because I hate to speak up so.

And I feel badly about it.  It’s part of what I was writing about previously in the 12th step.  I need to represent!  Whether or not my very presence helps anyone at all (besides me), I should have something worthwhile to say about almost everything that comes up at this point.

August 8, 2010 (this day)

I’m waiting to go to church, then Carole and I are going for a brunch she won playing golf.  She’s saying it to celebrate our 5th anniversary, the anniversary of when we got married in the church, if not in the state.  This past June we marked 13 years together.

The photograph was taken at our meeting last night.  I asked someone to lead who I’ve known I guess the whole time I’ve lived here, so for about 12 years.  I knew we had lots of things in common, but last night I was amazed.

This is part of what I love about AA.  No where else in my life, really, except very occasionally would I get to know so well and “identify” with a woman like Elizabeth.  No where else in my life was I told to and taught to “identify” with anyone at all.

Elizabeth and I also have many differences, but among our shared details:

• we are approximately the same age
• we are approximately the same height (an unusual height, or lack thereof)
• we grew up with little supervision (for very different reasons)
• we started drinking at approximately the same age
• we got involved with an older man
• we stopped drinking at approximately the same age and within three weeks of each other
• so we have been sober for 26 years
• we broke up with our man (I went on to another, oh well)
• we identified as gay
• we have a long-term relationship with crazy women.  Elizabeth used the term “wiry” to describe them.  She and her partner have been together, I think, for almost 20 years.

How cool is that?  Very cool, and further proof that I am not unique.  I’ve heard thousands of “stories,” I’m sure, by this time.  How much richer my life is for it!

Self-Esteem

I took a test:

Results of your Self-Esteem Test

	Self-Esteem Index
Your score = 80

What does your score mean?

According to this test, you have high self-esteem. You recognize your inner value and it shows in your personal life, relationships and career/school success. You exude confidence, which is very attractive, and believe enough in yourself to pursue things whole-heartedly. Such a healthy self-esteem allows you to “be yourself”, handle stress effectively and maintain an overall sense of well-being. You should value and nurture this quality; it will get you far in life. Way to go!

I don’t know.  I wonder what someone with a score of 100 would look like.

Last night at my meeting, the topic was something like “living with yourself in sobriety.”  I said that living with myself in sobriety is often hard.  I’ve been schooled for many years in the ideal ways to be, and I fall short most of the time, I think.  Literally most of the time.

Maybe part of that is an oldtimer dilemma.  In the beginning, I changed so drastically it was like a baby going from newborn to toddler.  In a short time I changed so much, and it has slowed way way down.  I also understand more about the way I should be than I understood at that time.  I know so many more of the right answers so if I think about it, I can quickly realize I’m not living up to what I know I should be.

Still, with all that I score an 80.  For the questions, most people around me don’t seem to be better off than I am.  I don’t really like myself and accept myself the way I am.  I need to keep improving.  Being myself allows the people who only truly like the genuine me to like me – a lesson I am grateful to have learned.  Thank goodness there are a few of them out there.  I am a little bit afraid of rejection, and in some ways I am inferior.  Physically, for example, and I’m fine with that.  Having bright children and working with people with intellectual disabilities has taught me that some are quicker than others.  It’s not good or bad (though intelligence is a wonderful gift), it just is.  People would notice if I disappeared.  I’ve asked anyone who would care to please look for me.  I am not worthless, futile or insignificant.  Though ignoring problems might not make them go away, it is my preferred method of dealing with them.  And no, I will never be as capable as I should be due to character defects like laziness and fear.

So according to Discovery Health, this all results in high self-esteem.  OK then, just as long as it’s not too high.

This Blog – March 28, 2010

I noticed, looking at my archives, that I’m writing about half as often as I did at this time last year.  I never set out with a goal of how often to write, and I’ve balanced it usually with the other things I do.  What I do is have a full-time job (with generous time off), sleep, read books, crochet, read message boards, watch TV and DVDs, walk, brush, train and obsess over my dog, clean the house, cook (not often), shop (hardly at all), email, talk on the phone, go to meetings, other miscellaneous recreation, commute, read blogs, read and watch news, bathe and do person hygiene stuff, work on my fear of flying, exercise a tiny bit, talk to people in person.  That’s all I can think of.

I’ve meant to focus my thoughts here, in this blog, on the oldtimer experience.  I often can’t resist the “when I first stopped drinking” mode that permeates so many AA meetings.  But I try.  With other people, other books, other blogs, I appreciate oldtimers more than I can say.  Even when those oldtimers are concentrated on “when I first stopped drinking,” their very presence cheers and inspires me.

In person, when I hear someone mention, for example, “Carmelita, who has 20 years of sobriety,” I cringe inside.  I feel I do not live up to the amount of sober time I have.  I feel someone would never refer to me in that way.

I mention AA, I link to AA, I quote AA, this is about my AA experience.  I sincerely hope that no one thinks I am in any way endorsed by or related to AA beyond being a member.  I am not.  I owe my life to AA and I would never harm it.  I hope that  my experiences and thoughts reflect positively on AA.  My experiences in AA are extremely limited, and I only write about my experiences.  AA is world-wide and I am not.  I have not studied AA, I just go to meetings and read information.  AA gave me my life and so it is the most important thing in my life.  That said, I believe that people who write in criticism of AA should be allowed to do that as well as I can write its praises.  I will not reveal my real name or my full face because I follow the traditions of AA.  I will reveal my politics because I do not speak for AA.

Some search terms that lead people here:

aa meetings topics : This is my most popular page.  I have fun collecting topics and welcome suggestions.

aa character defects list :  I do keep a list, and some of it is inspired or comes from AA literature, other parts of it do not.  I mean it to be helpful only.  I know many people struggle with understanding and listing character defects.

do alcoholics regret : Yes, I think they do.  My understanding of the AA program is that not regretting the past is an ideal I am to strive for.  I don’t think we ever get there.

terence this is stupid stuff analysis : Lots of people get here this way, and it makes me cringe a little.  This is a poem that had lots of meaning for me when I studied it in school.  It involves alcohol and drunkenness, and so I related and still do.  I pity the poor English student who comes here seeking enlightenment.  I should probably add a disclaimer to that page.  I hope no one has suffered a bad grade due to my influence.

aa meetings how to chair a meeting : Things like this are so varied from place to place.  I’ve lived lots of places but really, not that many, and all in the US.  I wonder why people seek information like this on the internet rather than asking someone in their group.

running into someone you know at an aa : Well, it happens, and sometimes it results in a very happy ending.  In my experience, the person usually doesn’t, as most don’t, stick with it, and they fade away.  There are people out there who have seen me at an AA meeting and who are not members themselves any longer.  This has never had a bad impact on my life in any way.  Bottom line is, you’re there for the same reason.  My drunken behavior would be much more noteworthy than my presence at an AA meeting.

embarrassed to attend an aa meeting : See above, and be honest.  Your drunken behavior is much more embarrassing than your attendance at a meeting.

what’s the point of aa meetings : That would be to stay sober, and to help other alcoholics achieve sobriety.

” . . . the maladjusted life you have led . . .”

A reader asks:

Hi, I just read your disclaimer “just for the record, I refused to meet her (Carole) until she had one year sober”.

So I don’t see how that you getting with someone with 1 year when you have 12 years. It’s not that it is bad, etc, but odd. I mean come on, there are many SINGLE individuals in the rooms of AA with the same amount of sobriety as yourself. Now, if you are still married to her, she has 14 years clean, with 13 with you. Her entire soberlife has been manifested with you. While your 13 year-relationship with Carole has only comprised half of your soberlife. My point being is, what is her program like with out you? What if she left you? What if she wanted to leave you? What if you left her? Let’s just say, she won’t leave you out of fear. Fear of loss. Loss of: clean time, aa (friends, meetings, support networks), possibly money and career, housing, etc

Let me say this, you unintentionally finding a vulnerable individual in their first year of sobriety is a loud cry as to the maladjusted life you have led for those first 13 years, NO MATTER how well-adjusted newcomer with 12 months really is…

Please reply

Where to start?

First, I would not, in any circumstance, dismiss the questions raised.  They are legitimate questions to ask in any case.  It is quite painfully true that AA is filled with experienced people who know how to take advantage of inexperienced people.

• I mean come on, there are many SINGLE individuals in the rooms of AA with the same amount of sobriety as yourself.

I’m assuming this means I was looking for love, and that I should have been looking elsewhere, in other words, to other oldtimers, for a relationship.

I was not looking for a relationship.  I had split with the father of my children seven years earlier, and I was very much enjoying being a single parent.  I had lots of help from the grandparents of my kids.  I had a job that let me take care of them when I needed to.  I supported them financially including health insurance.  I didn’t have to compromise with anyone as to if the windows would be up or down, or what to set the heat at, or anything.  I was truly determined to stay single.

Also, for the first part of our online relationship, Carole with involved with other people.  I was not, under any circumstances, going there.  We began as an online friendship between an oldtimer and a newcomer.

• Now, if you are still married to her, she has 14 years clean, with 13 with you. Her entire soberlife has been manifested with you. While your 13 year-relationship with Carole has only comprised half of your soberlife. My point being is, what is her program like with out you? What if she left you? What if she wanted to leave you? What if you left her? Let’s just say, she won’t leave you out of fear. Fear of loss. Loss of: clean time, aa (friends, meetings, support networks), possibly money and career, housing, etc

This crosses my mind from time to time.  Not so much in terms of leaving, but I think, at times, about how difficult it would be if one of us was to die.  Like any married couple, we relate to so much of the world, the AA world included, as us.  If I’m calling someone from the program, and I think that person might not know who I am, I describe myself as, “Lydia, from Carole-and-Lydia.”

My sober time before I met her proves, I guess, that I can work AA without her.  Her year prior to meeting me proves that she can also.  But more than that, the AA (friends, meetings, support networks), money, career, housing, etc, falls squarely in my loss column, not hers.  She is much more outgoing than I am.  She has many more friends, meetings, support networks, much more money, a more secure and better-paying career, and much better potential to support herself than I do.  If we were to split up, she’d be in a much better position than I would be in.

Having met in AA, and having worked the program as a couple for so long, I honestly don’t think we’d make it through a situation where one of us wanted to leave, but was afraid to do so based on the loss of those things.  Our relationship is far too important, far too frequent, far too honest to make it that way for long.  At least that’s the way I see it.  I understand that people are made the fool every day, and that I may look back on these words bitterly, but I don’t think so.  Today I’m willing to risk it.

Years ago, it was important to me that I maintain my ability to independently support myself and my kids.  Now that the kids can see to themselves, I really don’t know if I’d make it on my own, or be too terribly devastated to do so.  That, I think, is from advancing age, not from unhealthy dependence.

• Let me say this, you unintentionally finding a vulnerable individual in their first year of sobriety is a loud cry as to the maladjusted life you have led for those first 13 years, NO MATTER how well-adjusted newcomer with 12 months really is…

Well, I did think, from the very beginning, that Carole had the characteristics to be a winner and to make it in the program.  As I said, we started as an online AA friendship and (speaking for myself) fell in love.  Before we met.  Which is so cool!

Having fallen, I then did the prudent thing and said I would not meet her in person until she had a year.  Once she had a year, and she proposed meeting (at 14 months), I expressed my concerns to a friend that a year isn’t really very long at all.  I remember that friend said, “How long does someone have to have to date you?”  See at that point, I did want to come across as a snooty oldtimer of 12 years.  I was also concerned for Carole’s mental health and sobriety, should we not get along in person.  It could happen!  But at that point I was in love, powerless in those wonderful ways of resisting the object of my desire any longer.

This would have been a mess in person, and I’m grateful we met just the way we needed to do so, online.  I don’t think we would have been attracted to each other in person, but if we had been, that could have been a bad scene.

I can see how, looking from the outside, it might look as if I found someone vulnerable and took advantage.  I can’t convey in words on this page that it really didn’t happen that way.  I can say that I’m as confident as I can be that she would not stay with me out of fear of the external things she could lose if she left.  With any long relationship, AA-based or not, those issues are difficult and heart-breaking.

I hope our longevity speaks to the wisdom of our decisions back then.  Carole was newly sober, yes, but she wasn’t a newborn baby, incapable of acting and dependent on the evil oldtimer to manipulate her.

Love like this is risky under any circumstances.  The AA factor has added so much to our relationship.  I can’t picture it, nor would I want it, any other way.  Back then, I felt that I was the one risking so much.  My fidelity to AA was proven, and hers was not.  I moved my children 400 miles away from their home and their grandparents.  I took a career risk, a pay cut, and gave up my precious independence to risk it on a relationship with a newcomer.

I am astonished, now, at all I did.

But I was in love, and I could not resist.  I didn’t know about this kind of love before.  I had been in relationships, and maybe I’d had some of emotions of being in love, but I had not met and developed a relationship with someone who would be a true life partner to me.

The life I lived before her was maladjusted, to some degree, I believe that we all are.  But looking back, whatever I did and had done, it got me ready for the next step, which was my relationship with my wife.  I wouldn’t blame anyone who, at the time, was worried about the potential for pain all around.  But to me that is part of the life that AA enables me to live.  Before AA I was not well-adjusted enough to have a relationship.  After practicing for years I was able to.

I feel, in a way, that if I drink tomorrow, AA has still been a huge success in my life, having given me all these productive years.  If Carole leaves me tomorrow I would likewise call our relationship a success (barring some huge deceit I don’t know about right now).

So I’m sorry, Matt B, that you read my explanation of how I met my wife in AA as an indictment and see it as something that I should not have done.  I was mindful, and careful, and I hope the good results speak for themselves.